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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 00:57, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dongqiao, Tibet

[edit]
Dongqiao, Tibet (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Tibet Stats)
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Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. Cliff Smith 18:04, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No sourcing, non-database (i.e. specific) coordinates, specific administrative divisions (Tibet AR is 1.2 million km2), or Chinese/Tibetan to prove the existence of this "village", which may well be a town or township (no surprise, many WP editors are keen on calling towns cities and vice versa when they have official designations). I have successfully PROD-ded this before, and the last time around, the same issues applied, except there at least were coordinates, albeit accurate only to the nearest arc minute. GotR Talk 16:24, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete until we have proof that this place exists. So far all we have is the word of one person (i.e., the author) that there is such a place as Dongqiao. The author needs to stand up and tell us where he got this info. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 19:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep based new info added by Dr. Blofeld. The coordinates appear to be wrong though: There is absolutely nothing there in the satellite picture. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 19:06, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete without prejudice to re-create - Non-English names that do not have native Latin characters can be very difficult to identify. "Dongqiao" could be one of multiple translated spellings from either Chinese or even a Tibetan language. So far I can't find anything on Dongqiao, but that's not necessarily conclusive evidence that the place doesn't exist. If someone can find this place, perhaps with a different spelling, then it can be re-created. --Oakshade (talk) 22:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC) Changed to Keep per Dr. Blofeld and GotR below. --Oakshade (talk) 18:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: It seems to be located in Amdo County: [1][2].--Cattus talk 00:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not very clear. Judging from those references, it is uncertain whether Dongqiao is a village or town, or something else. The first reference (cjxb.ac.cn) refers to the "Dongqiao area" and "Dongqiao region". The second reference (mindat.org) refers to the "Dongqiao Ophiolite" and the "Dongqiao Ophiolite Complex" (ophiolite [q.v.] is a geologic feature). It seems that at the present time, all we can say is that Dongqiao is something or some place, not necessarily a town, within the Nagchu Prefecture of Tibet. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 15:54, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Another source saying it's in Amdo: [3]. I have found no evidence that it is a populated place.--Cattus talk 19:10, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I checked the coordinates given in this page [4] on Google Maps and the only thing near that location seems to be a road or a railway track.--Cattus talk 19:21, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Found a place about 5 km northeast of those coordinates: [5].--Cattus talk 20:18, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Google Maps says the place is Qiangmazhen.--Cattus talk 20:29, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also looked on Google Earth within 0.1° latitude and longitude of the new coordinates TAP gave. Besides Qiangma, the only settlements I can see are villages with clearly Tibetan names ("Dongqiao" is unlikely to be a Chinese transliteration of Tibetan): Naluoba, Selezabu. And I can't be missing something, either: this is inhospitable terrain at 4,600 m+, with, unless my eyes are deceiving me, lakes/ponds that are shown as starting to freeze on 16 October 2011, so there hardly are any settlements around. GotR Talk 21:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The location provided by Cattus above appears to be (from satellite view) some sort of industrial installation, or perhaps a remote military base. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 21:40, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry, but the coordinates you provided were for a Dongqiao in Xiangcheng, Suzhou, i.e. on the totally wrong side of the country. GotR Talk 20:10, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I am beginning to think that Dongqiao is an area or a region, rather than a village or populated place. Kind of like referring to the Llano Estacado in the United States. The Tripmondo reference that was recently provided does not refer to a village, and there does not appear to be anything at the coordinates given. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 21:33, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Both village and geological regions are notable and have coverage in multiple reliable sources. Why is it always left to me to expand, doesn't anybody else have access to google books? I strongly suspect the population and agric data is for another village, probably southeastern China, doesn't sound like typical Tibetan produce! The population is too high for a Tibetan village, but I couldn't confirm the province, Funan I'd imagine, I think there appears to be a settlement there of the same name. Also I don't like the rough database coordinates for villages I always like to match it up with a settlement you can view on satellite, the exact location will need chasing.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:56, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are right about your suspicions—I have accounted for them in the article itself. And 6,900 is too high of a population for any Chinese village, but not a more urban residential community.
  • I've checked the National Bureau of Statistics page for Amdo County (as claimed in the article), and have searched every division of the county for villages named "东巧", and returned ZERO results. GotR Talk 18:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strange. Its possible of course it now has a different name, but multiple reliable sources mention it as a villageabout 90 km west of Amdo.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:59, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would say its there somewhere around where the coordinates say it is as the book source which says about 90 km west of Amdo as practically matches my own calculation of Qiangma at 90.7 km west of Amdo. Also looking on google earth I've found quite a substantial frozen lake named Dongqiacuo (Dongqia Lake) as cuo means lake to the southwest of the coordinates. I can't locate a settlement though.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:15, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Voila. I followed the trail and found the exact coordinates here. 90% sure that's it as it as its the largest settlement in the area and an educated guess would say it is fairly near the lake of the same name Dongqia Cuo. Its between northeast of the lake and southwest of where geonames says it is to the southwest of Qiangma. Check it out on google earth. A trial and error as I found numerous villages in the area but based on the lake name and the geonames and it being the largest and practically only settlement between the lake and Qiangma I'd hazard a guess that that's it.

If you zoom in on yahoo maps it is shocking how many villages there actually are in Tibet. I believed previously there was about 800 but the databases at the time didn't record them all. Probably nearer ten times that amount.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:04, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I 2nd that. Dr. Blofeld did an excellent job.--Oakshade (talk) 00:45, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm confident that the settlement in the coordinates now is correct based on several things. a] One source says its around 90 km west of Amdo which Qiangma is according to google map calculations. b] Geonames indicates thst its south of Qiangma and this is backed by a book source which mentions the rock formations and Qiangma being north of it. c] A give away is the fact that there is a lake called Dongqia Cuo and you'd naturally assume a village to not be too far away. Between the lake and where geonames says it is and its the nearest settlement of significance to the lake so its a good guess I think. There are other villages to the northeast if you follow the path and it would be nice to be 100% certain but at least it doesn't point to nothing as it did before!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:20, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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